Posts by Jonathan Drake

24

Why are Battle Against Faith

by Jonathan Drake in

if any are willing, share your fact based reasons for viewing faith as dangerous.

viewing faith as dangerous is the reason for almost all of my posts recently.

what seems constant is that theists are too focused on there own little world to realize how and why faith is so damaging to society.

Jonathan Drake

Also my apologies to any who saw how Siri failed to dictate my post properly, I've fixed the quote

24

Why are Battle Against Faith

by Jonathan Drake in

if any are willing, share your fact based reasons for viewing faith as dangerous.

viewing faith as dangerous is the reason for almost all of my posts recently.

what seems constant is that theists are too focused on there own little world to realize how and why faith is so damaging to society.

Jonathan Drake

Also my apologies, my phone turned "why the battle against faith" into "why are" not sure why

24

Why are Battle Against Faith

by Jonathan Drake in

if any are willing, share your fact based reasons for viewing faith as dangerous.

viewing faith as dangerous is the reason for almost all of my posts recently.

what seems constant is that theists are too focused on there own little world to realize how and why faith is so damaging to society.

Jonathan Drake

If any are willing, share your fact based reasons for viewing faith as dangerous.

Viewing faith as dangerous is the reason for almost all of my posts recently. What seems constant is that theists are too focused on there own little world to realize how and why faith is so damaging to society. The thought occurred to me that it may be helpful to lurkers and frequent visitors to understand why passions against faith are so hot at times. After all, a common facet of being a theist is a closed off world where they are ignorant of the very real harms done by faith.

for any believers who read this thread, please remember that the bible, and the interpretation of it (regardless of if it would be how YOU interpret it) is directly responsible for the things posted in this thread.

I must stress, because of that last remark, that any post in line with this thread be done by citing the source and merely letting the information lay to be read as is.

im going to begin by sharing an example i recently read.

Ashley was the only child of Catherine and John King, prosperous middle-class Christian scientists in Phoenix ( John was a real estate developer ). In 1987, at the age of 12, Ashley developed a lump on her leg. Her parents sought no medical aid, and the lump continued to grow. When it became too large and painful to allow her to go to school, they withdrew her, and although Ashley was supposed to receive in-home instruction by teachers, her parents refused it.
Ashley's lump-a tumor-kept growing, and the Kings continued to ignore it. In May 1988, a detective, alerted by neighbors who hadn't seen the child for months, managed to enter the Kings' home, and saw that the problem was quite serious. Although Ashley tried to cover the tumor with a pillow, the detective immediately realized that she was in fact dying. A court order put her in custody of child protective services, which sent her to Phoenix Children's Hospital. But by the time she got real medical attention, it was far too late. Her tumor was and osteogenic sarcoma - bone cancer- and had metastasized to her lungs. Her heart was dangerously enlarged from trying to pump blood to the growing tumor, and since she couldn't move because of the pain, her genitals and buttocks were covered with bedsores. Her tumor had grown to 13 inches across, larger than a basketball, and stench from her rotting flesh permeated the hospital floor. The doctors recommended amputating the leg-not to save her life, for her condition was terminal-but to ease her pain and give her a bit more time. One doctor said that Ashley was experiencing "one of the worst kind of pain known to mankind."
The Kings refused amputation, and on May 12 moved their daughter to a Christian science sanatorium where there was no medical care, not even pain medication. Instead, there were 71 calls to Christian science practitioners for Ashley's "treatment": prayer alone. When she cried out in agony, she was told that she was disturbing the other patients. Actually died on June 5, 1988, a martyr to her parents and delusions. At the subsequent trial of her parents, a prosecutor described her tumor at death as "about the size of two watermelons. "The doctors believed that had she been diagnosed early, there was a 50 to 60% chance she could have been saved.
- Jerry Coyne, Faith Versus Fact pg 230, 231

11

My Way of Interpreting the Bible is the ONLY Right Way!

by FusionTheism in

whether you are a christian, jew, undecided, agnostic, or atheist, isn't having the attitude that only ***your*** interpretation of the bible could be correct, or only ***you*** know what the bible means, -- .

isn't this a form of closed-mindedness, arrogance, and a superiority complex?.

in addition, isn't trying to force someone to conform to ***your*** interpretation of the bible the opposite of "freethinking?

Jonathan Drake

It doesn't matter how any one person interprets the bible or any other holy book, it should be held responsible for any and all interpretations, as well as the subsequent results of that interpretations interaction with society.

There is no way to interpret the laws of slavery in the bible to mean slavery is bad. Slavery was encouraged and sanctioned, and owners were allowed to beat their slaves as close to death as they liked.

It many times proscribes infanticide. And praises those who carry it out, while the only occasion of someone refusing to resulted in his being disgraced from God and terrorized by an evil spirit from God (Saul).

it encourages hatred of homosexuals as a profanity of nature.

it lies about our history as a species.

it falsely presents as prophecy before the fact a post recording of events.

Regardless how anyone interprets it's horrendous words, these are the realities of the book.

id love to hear your interpretation of killing infants in scores which makes it acceptable.

61

God loves Gay, Lesbian, and Transgendered People

by FusionTheism in

god's view of gays and lesbians.

why should anyone care what i have to say on this topic?

i am not a priest.

Jonathan Drake

FusionTheism5 minutes ago

Freemindfade,
But isn't your belief that people cannot legitimately view the Bible in a way different from the way you view it

I know this is directed at FMF but I'm going to interject.

the contention of most people with the bible isn't that there is one true way to view it and that that should be shared by all - that is a position taken by every Christian denomination. The contention is that the archaic book from a barbaric time should be held responsible for any and all posible interpretations there of - not just the good ones.

The bad results of terrible interpretations of this book far exceed the good and because of this fact the book should be viewed critically and not as sacred. It should have no place in any decision making process, especially by any person in a place of office or with some position responsibility.

61

God loves Gay, Lesbian, and Transgendered People

by FusionTheism in

god's view of gays and lesbians.

why should anyone care what i have to say on this topic?

i am not a priest.

Jonathan Drake

That's an arguable statement FT, because technically Paul was only referring to the mosaic law not the Ten Commandments. But I couldn't care less what you think about that specifically, what I care about is this:

you originally said,

Hebrews chapter 8 says the Old Testament was faulty, has been replaced by Jesus' New Covenant, and has become obsolete.

And my entire point, which you just agreed with, is that you were wrong and Paul was not saying the Old Testament was faulty, only the law covenant.

The Old Testament is not just the first few books of the bible, and the covenant doesn't even take up the whole of these only a fraction.

61

God loves Gay, Lesbian, and Transgendered People

by FusionTheism in

god's view of gays and lesbians.

why should anyone care what i have to say on this topic?

i am not a priest.

Jonathan Drake

Here's some more for you; if you're going to use the bible you need to be thorough.

That verse you quote in chapter 8 is a continuance from chapter 7 in which Paul even specifies himself that he's talking about the law not the entire Old Testament.

Hebrews 7:18, 19
For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

61

God loves Gay, Lesbian, and Transgendered People

by FusionTheism in

god's view of gays and lesbians.

why should anyone care what i have to say on this topic?

i am not a priest.

Jonathan Drake

"If that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second."

The entire Old Testament is not the "covenant". The covenant was the oaths taken both by God and Israel. God made a covenant with Israel that if they lived up to his law they'd prosper and Israel agreed. THIS IS THE COVENANT, the mosaic law and the promise to obey. He entire Old Testament is not the covenant, only the events at mount horeb.

Deut 5:2
"The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb."

The covenant was a specific event recorded within the Old Testament that was formed at mount horeb.

Exodus 19:1-24
Moses on Sinai
19 In the third month after the sons of Israel had gone out of the land of Egypt, [a]on that very day they came into the wilderness of Sinai. 2 When they set out from Rephidim, they came to the wilderness of Sinai and camped in the wilderness; and there Israel camped in front of the mountain.3 Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel: 4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. 5 Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My [b]own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine;6 and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.”
7 So Moses came and called the elders of the people, and set before them all these words which the Lordhad commanded him. 8 All the people answered together and said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do!” And Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord.9 The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I will come to you in a thick cloud, so that the people may hear when I speak with you and may also believe in you forever.” Then Moses told the words of the people to the Lord.
10 The Lord also said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their garments; 11 and let them be ready for the third day, for on the third day the Lord will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. 12 You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, ‘[c]Beware that you do not go up on the mountain or touch the border of it; whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. 13 No hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or [d]shot through; whether beast or man, he shall not live.’ When the ram’s horn sounds a long blast, they shall come up to the mountain.” 14 So Moses went down from the mountain to the people and consecrated the people, and they washed their garments. 15 He said to the people, “Be ready for the third day; do not go near a woman.”
16 So it came about on the third day, when it was morning, that there were [e]thunder and lightning flashes and a thick cloud upon the mountain and a very loud trumpet sound, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. 17 And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they stood at the [f]foot of the mountain.

If you are confused, mount horeb is mount Sinai. Anyway. The covenant which Paul wrote was faulty was the law covenant formed at Sinai - NOT the Old Testament.

youre wrong

61

God loves Gay, Lesbian, and Transgendered People

by FusionTheism in

god's view of gays and lesbians.

why should anyone care what i have to say on this topic?

i am not a priest.

Jonathan Drake

Hebrews chapter 8 says the Old Testament was faulty, has been replaced by Jesus' New Covenant, and has become obsolete.

Wrong, it says that the mosaic law was faulty because nobody could live up to it. It does not say the entire Old Testament was, and Paul is writing, the same man who later wrote that ALL scripture is inspired by God. Paul was trained at the feet of Gamaliel and a Pharisee and a Jew - he held the Old Testament with the most respect and absolutely had them in mind when referring to scripture because there was no New Testament when he wrote those words. The Old Testament was all they had and was viewed as sacred because it supposedly confirmed Christ.

Youre wrong.

67

All Christians Should Accept EVOLUTION

by FusionTheism in

it is time for christians to accept evolution, in my opinion.. there are many reasons why i think it is long overdue for all christians to finally accept what science says about evolution.

below i will show these reasons.. .

the bible tells people to pay attention to nature to see the glory of god (psalm 19; romans 1:19-20).

Jonathan Drake

Atheists do not need a literal Bible to attack. Fine, throw it out. We wish you would. Even throwing out the literalness is a fine start. So where do you draw the line? Was Jesus just a man? Was he born of a virgin like the myth borrowed from false religion? Did he perform actual miracles? Or was that all figurative of a smart guy just like the Buddha? What does the future hold for earth if the Bible is figurative? How do we interpret Revelation, or is that one that doesn't really belong? Why doesn't God just tell us?

This is such a good point. The more allegorical the bible is seen the more atheism is winning this argument.